Champions Screenshots
Posted on: Mon, 08/04/2008 - 1:42pm
So, I was looking through the screenshots featured here:
http://www.champions-online.com/gallery/screenshots
And reading some more about Champions. It may just be me, but I find it a little hard to get used to their "comic rendering". The most dramatic example is the girl in pink. It looks like they put some effort into the model and effects, but that they just replaced the texture with a flat colour. It's harder to tell depth as well.
Now, that being said, I'm not a console player, and I haven't played a lot of cell rendered games, so I thought I'd get your opinions. What's your opinion on cell render? Would you prefer it in general, for this genre, or not at all? Is the issue with depth I mention just because they were screenshots, or does it affect the perception of the 3D world?
It feels to me like Jack is going for a 'true comic feel', just like when he said he wouldn't release real numbers in CoH. But IMO, there's a reason why the grittier and sometimes more realistic art is doing well right now, and a reason why non comic buyers will spend money on live action super hero movies. Comics are a medium to tell a story. What's more important is the character, plot, dialogue, etc. Personally, if I had my own holodeck, I'd be playing in a world like Batman Begins, or the X movies, not a cartoon.
Viewtiful Joe, and other cell games did well when they came out, though, so what do I know about this?
http://www.champions-online.com/gallery/screenshots
And reading some more about Champions. It may just be me, but I find it a little hard to get used to their "comic rendering". The most dramatic example is the girl in pink. It looks like they put some effort into the model and effects, but that they just replaced the texture with a flat colour. It's harder to tell depth as well.
Now, that being said, I'm not a console player, and I haven't played a lot of cell rendered games, so I thought I'd get your opinions. What's your opinion on cell render? Would you prefer it in general, for this genre, or not at all? Is the issue with depth I mention just because they were screenshots, or does it affect the perception of the 3D world?
It feels to me like Jack is going for a 'true comic feel', just like when he said he wouldn't release real numbers in CoH. But IMO, there's a reason why the grittier and sometimes more realistic art is doing well right now, and a reason why non comic buyers will spend money on live action super hero movies. Comics are a medium to tell a story. What's more important is the character, plot, dialogue, etc. Personally, if I had my own holodeck, I'd be playing in a world like Batman Begins, or the X movies, not a cartoon.
Viewtiful Joe, and other cell games did well when they came out, though, so what do I know about this?
In some of the shots, the characters seem to have some rendering in terms of shadows and highlights, which is a bit more appealing than the flat colors and no real shadows/highlights.
I think they took this approach so they could more easily accomplish the customization they are advertising.
__________________They never let poor Rudolph join in any reindeer games.
to me it looks like the incredibles without Pixars gift for being awesome.
with that being said id give it a try but i really think COX did the comic MMORPG right!
__________________That said I really did enjoy Zelda Windwaker. The gameplay was there and the visuals were neat.
So right now I'm on the fence. Some longer gameplay demos will be necessary for me to really judge it. The bits of gameplay they showed in the trailer looked good. People and objects seem to become more 3D as you get closer.
I think most of us are interested in trying out Champions Online - it'd be hard not to be enticed, especially given our current crowd of members and their interests.
I enjoy cell-shading quite a bit (the oddball once again, I know), but even I'm not sure if I love or hate the look of CO. I think it will take time to adjust to it, but I imagine it won't be the defining factor of who stays with the game or not.
__________________
__________________Second, it's not actually "cell shading", it's "comic shading". It's higher quality than cell shading, and was done specifically to achieve that "comic book feel". Overall, I'd say the community is split about 50/50 or whether they love it or hate it. Personally, I don't really care that much either way, and I'll explain why.
In my opinion, graphics have never made the game. You want realistic graphics? Then just go outside
Many older games have graphics that pale in comparison to what we have today, but they were still alot of fun, and in my opinion they are still really fun to this day. For example, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, earlier and handheld Legend of Zelda games, Golden Eye, and so on. Nintendo is a great example of how lower quality graphics do not neccesarily hamper the game. For example, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is still a popular RPG, despite it's 2D characters and pop-up book style bosses. Even right now I've been playing a Castlevania game on the DS, and I've found that their 2D games are more fun than the 3D Castlevania games. I'm also going to point out that WoW has very cartoony graphics, and yet it remains the most popular MMORPG to date.
I also have a bit of a bone to pick with all this "gritty" stuff. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't play games to be depressed and emo
So, to wrap things up, I really don't think that there's anything wrong with "Comic Shading" myself, and I highly doubt that it will cause them to lose customers. Furthermore, the gritty stuff is highly overrated imo, and is far from neccesary to make a good game. I really think that CO (Champion Online) will be a very successful game, as it has many ground breaking things to bring to the MMO world, and is far more than CoX with new graphics. I personally really look forward to the incredible customization of characters, soloability, and trying to build my own personal Nemesis into a team wiping machine
P.S. They've already announced on the forums and in interviews that they will incorporate an option that gives us all the real numbers for us number crunchers (the default is just basic information so as to not overload casual players).
They've also announced that at some point you will be able to actually play as your character's Nemesis. It may or may not be there at launch, but they are definately going to have it in as soon as they can.
As for the visuals/graphics, you seem to make some contradictory statements by saying graphics are not important, but then saying how awesome customization is.
If the story is the most important aspect, then everyone should be able to run around as the same stick figures and the story would shine through and keep us coming back for more. However, that is not always the case, and the overall look of a game is just as important as the storyline. I would actually say when it comes to games and attracting people, the visuals are going going to be a bit more important than the story. Just like a comic book cover is there to grab a person's attention and make them take a look at the book, the graphics of a game and a person's impression will lead them to investigate the game more or blow it off.
As for older games and their ability to still captivate, there's a bit of nostalgia going on there that will influence your desires to still play them. I wouldn't say certain games, such as Paper Mario were of lesser quality graphics, they were just different and were something the game developers went with that matched the story they were trying to tell. They could have gone with a different direction, but it wouldn't give the same effect they would have probably desired...the same thing holds true for CO.
Yes, the 'comic shading', as the Cryptic people call it, will appeal to many people - but there will also be those of us that it doesn't appeal to and in some cases it will determine whether or not people decide to keep playing it or stop. It happens all the time and isn't anything new or horrible.
__________________They never let poor Rudolph join in any reindeer games.
EDIT since Razor somehow ninja-d that massive post in front of mine, this was a reply to Kruhl's last post.
__________________They never let poor Rudolph join in any reindeer games.
By customization, I'm refering to powers and abilities.
If you can make a game with awesome gameplay and story, and that is alot of fun, yet has stick figure graphics, I'll play it. Also, I assure you, that just as many people have been willing to look into the game because of this unique approach to graphics as have been turned off because of it.
There's no nostalgia needed. I use Amazon.com to shop for old games that I just never had the money for when they came out, or that I hadn't heard of. I don't care if the game is 15 years old, if it's a fun game, then I'll buy it.
And just as some people refuse to play the game because of the way it looks, there will be people who will play the game just because of the way it looks. My point is that there is no Doom
Anyway, I just wanted to see if I was the only one who would have some difficulty getting used to the graphics. If it is hard to look at (for me) then it will be hard to play. I agree with what was said about 'grittyness' though. I don't enjoy depressing stories. It's appropriate for some movies or books that are historical or trying to get a certain point across, but not a world I want to live in.
Other than that, I would have to agree with Razor's posts. *gasp*
they are putting it out for the XBOX360 as well as PC. Cross platform games tend to have dumbed down controls to compensate for the lack of options on console controls. Since this is going to be an MMO there will tons of tweaking to make the game "fair" for everyone. Which to the PC gamer means less controls, Xbox controller=9 seperate buttons PC=Standard keyboard.
Don't get me wrong cross-platform games can be fun for instance "Shadowrun" having said that and played both on the XBOX360 and PC, the PC has a clear advantage over console.
Ex:
XBOX360 - Magic slotting is mappable to the controllers 4 front finger buttons so most people would map their most useful stuff to these. To switch to weapons requires to hit the directional pad. To use unslotted magics you had to hit directional pad, select the power and then hit the activate button.
PC - Map all your magic and weapons to different keys
Here is the advantage of the PC: When it comes time to use a magic power or switch weapons all they have to do is hit a nearby key and everything is done on the fly. The controller requires you to move fingers off your movement or camera aim sticks to make adjustments this costs valuable time and makes you an easy target for someone able to switch while moving and firing.
console games at $60-$70 a pop and mass marketed who do think developers are going to listen to when the bitching starts.